Sunday, July 19th, 2009 09:30 pm
So yesterday I was walking down a random railroad track in the middle of a random swamp, picking blackberries when my phone rang.

It was my sister. She was like, "Hey, I know this is out of nowhere, but... you remember Pipi Camp?"

Of course I did. It was a week-long Christian camp my parents would send us to every summer. "... Yeah."

And then she was all, "Okay, do you remember the ceremony the last night where they did the thing with the sticks? Like, throw them into the fire?"

"... Yeah?"

"What did they call it?"

Then I remembered. Oh man, it had been years since I had thought of it. "They called it burning the fags."

So that was why she called, because she remembered out of the blue and she HAD to make sure she hadn't misunderstood or was going crazy or something. But she wasn't. I remembered they would explain that the sticks were calls "faggots" because that was an old word for sticks... but now that I'm grown up, it totally isn't. I mean, unless we're in the UK and we're smoking cigarettes. But we're not. We're in California.

Again, it's been years. I can't remember the exact reasons for the ceremony, and she can't either. I think we had to wrap a piece of paper around the stick before throwing it into the fire to burn. It might have been what we learned during our week in the camp, or a confession about our sins or something along those lines. Can't remember.

So, Christian friends on my flist, is this like... a normal thing? Am I missing something here, or does this whole thing seem just as fucked up as I am now realizing?
Monday, July 20th, 2009 04:48 am (UTC)
o.O; okay the stick thing in general is common for camp, but the name is really f-ing messed up. I've never gone to a Christian camp myself. (i always did the sport camps) But the campfire and stick thing is normal, but its usually called like a reflection or a goal-setting tradition or general bonding experience, not the burning of the "fags". (wtf?) Just.... no.
Monday, July 20th, 2009 04:59 am (UTC)
Hmmm. I wonder who's good idea that was to take a summer-camp tradition and -er- twist it around to fit their own needs.

Damnit, I should have gone to a sports camp! That would have been fun! :D
Monday, July 20th, 2009 04:50 am (UTC)
Can I just say that it scares me? I mean...sorry, I love my Christian brethren, but yeah, burning faggots...that's just...I know my people do that with bread but yeah...sorry. I'm not approving.
Monday, July 20th, 2009 04:57 am (UTC)
Yeah, that scares me too. Watch out for small-town america. Those are some of the scariest places. The people look all normal on the outside, but on the inside... just no.

I'm sure bread would have smelled better than rotten old sticks. We'd all gather around the fire and sometimes the wood would snap and pop and the embers would almost get us. Lol. That is what worried me at the time. I think I should have paid more attention. ;D
Monday, July 20th, 2009 05:02 am (UTC)
Seriously, I'll bet they are the people who asked if I had horns (Yes, people have asked) or where shocked and dumbfounded when they realized I have a BA in biblical studies and can discuss the Christian bible with relative fluency. "Jews know that Jesus existed?" one woman said, during a lecture I gave where I quoted one of my favorite verses of the Greek bible.

"Yes, we do," I say patiently.

"So how could you be Jewish? You've read the bible?" she continues. "And you seem to understand it?"

Pondering how I could say that in my suitcase was a copy of the Koran without getting myself stoned, I just moved on.

And actually, yeah, it does smell good and it's kinda fun.
Monday, July 20th, 2009 05:31 am (UTC)
O.o Oh dear. As far as I know, no one at my Catholic school did anything like that, but I tried not to get involved with their weird cult things. (Eating body and drinking blood? That sounds suspect. I'm just sayin'.)

I have heard of some crazy Christian types around here, though. I had a friend who went to school with some of them. Trying to make friends with one of them (on her first day, in 1st grade), she walked up to the preacher's daughter and announced, "Did you know we're descended from monkeys?"

The girl's response?

"You're going to hell."
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:12 pm (UTC)
LOL... oh wow. That's... wow. I feel bad for that poor preacher's daughter.

I went to a funeral for a friend who was also a Catholic a few months ago -- my first real exposure to Mass. And some of the ceremonies were like, um, yeah. I was grieving and of course I was respectful, but the blood and body ceremony took me aback a little.

These people were Evangelicals, I believe. They're on a whole new level of crazy.
Monday, July 20th, 2009 05:45 am (UTC)
...

Honestly, I don't get it. I am religious, and that doesn't stop me from being a lesbian. I don't just get that kind of disgusting bigotry. I don't see why our God would forbid love.

But well, I do live in Finland. And my parents are very tolerant.
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:09 pm (UTC)
I agree -- if there was a God why would he/she/it forbid love? Maybe you guys in Findland have it right. :D
Wednesday, July 29th, 2009 05:12 pm (UTC)
Bah, not really. Maybe not as bad as in US...

But there is something here in Finland. In here, a woman is able to become a priest. It ofcourse caused and still sometimes causes a fuss, but as far as I can remember I have had female priests. (I am eighteen) I remember the first time when I realized how new thing it is and how some (smaller) churches here still won't accept women as priests. I was throughly shocked. I was so used to it that I hadn't even wondered it.

Somehow memory of that always warms my mind.
Monday, July 20th, 2009 03:02 pm (UTC)
.....wow. That's... I'm squirming. Right now. And, yeah, okay, so faggot is Britslang for a bundle of twigs and fag is Britslang for a cigarette, but THIS ISN'T FUCKING BRITAIN. And unless the person running the camp/who came up with the idea was FROM there...
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:13 pm (UTC)
No, the preacher most definitely wasn't from Britain. He was weird in a few other ways (he used to shoot cats on his property and then pose their body in odd ways, for instance). He probably knew what he was doing. *sigh*
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:14 pm (UTC)
...................................

Urge to kill.

Rising.
Monday, July 20th, 2009 08:00 pm (UTC)
I, uh, only ever went to nerd and Girl Scout camps, but I did go on a lot of Christian retreats in my early teen years and yeah, no. O_o
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:14 pm (UTC)
I went to a girl scout camp once! SO much more fun than the Christian Camp! :D It's good to know that the ceremony isn't a common thing, because... yeah, no. Just... no.
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 12:09 am (UTC)
World Wide Words has an article on the origin of the word here.

Basically, it is true that the word started out as meaning "a bundle of sticks" and was originally applied to women who would gather said bundles, typically old widows. As with many words used for women, it was eventually applied to homosexuals as a derogatory term. I believe I have seen it used in its traditional form in poetry, plays, and other documents dating back from Shakespeare's time.

So it comes down to what you want to think. My guess is that, depending on how far back this particular tradition goes, the term was originally used in the traditional way: The burning of a bundle of sticks. That said, these are modern times and the term has evolved (or devolved) to gain additional connotations. It is possible that a) The group is unaware of the slang term and continues to use the term out of loyalty to tradition, b) The group is aware of the slang term and stubbornly refuses to change it because they don't want to seem like they're bowing to the demands of a "PC culture", c) The group is aware of the slang term and is using it purposefully to reinforce certain perceptions and behaviors it deems unacceptable.

Frankly, if it really bothers you, I'd put it in the context of the rest of the camp and whatever it tried to teach. If the whole set of memories gives you a good vibe overall, assume they're just ignorant. Maybe write them a letter to explain how it could be hurtful or offensive, if this really has you stirred up. If you get a bad vibe, assume that this is intentional and stay the hell away.
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:57 am (UTC)
Yeah, I'm going to have to second this opinion. That said, the idea of them still doing that makes me queasy...especially since there's no way they can't know what that is current American slang for.
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah... I think given what the rest of the camp was like, it was probably a combination of B and C. They're traditionalists and it's an isolated area. It's... bizarre. I'm glad again that I moved out from the area.
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:18 pm (UTC)
Thank you SO much for the detailed answer. That does clear a few things up. Putting it into context with the rest of the camp, I would have to say it's a combination of B and C. It's a very small, very isolated town up in the mountains. Like, some people don't have electricy or running water. They pride themselves on tradition AND keeping outsiders, out.

Writing a letter is a good idea. I'll consider it, although it may take me some time to figure out exactly what to say.

Thanks! *snug*
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 03:39 pm (UTC)
That it just downright creepy. I would go on youth retreats with my church when I was a teenager, and we never did that kind of thing- and I'm from the Bible Belt.
Remembering things from a completely different context can be down right strange, can't it?
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 05:23 pm (UTC)
Lol! Yes, it sure can. Slowly, I've begun to realize what a freak-show the town was in as a whole. I could totally write a book about it, but as a kid it seemed... normal, I guess. Now I live in a very PC area and things are very different.

It's good to know that even in the Bible-belt, that's not a normal ceremony because... yeah, that's just wrong.
Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 10:06 pm (UTC)
What makes it seem so creepy is that they would decide to use a word with a well known modern connotation, and say they were using it's old meaning. People in the US just don't use faggot to mean a bundle of sticks.
I went to a rather liberal church for these parts. By that, I mean I was the first female usher there, ever. And I had people coming up to me saying they were surprised the church wasn't falling down on me.
Yeah. That was liberal for the area. There was a schism later with many people leaving when the women demanded the right to be deacons.
Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009 05:26 am (UTC)
I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth...
Wednesday, July 22nd, 2009 10:58 pm (UTC)
That's really screwed up.
Like... Hitler-level screwed up...
Saturday, July 25th, 2009 07:52 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'm Catholic and when I was growing up all we were taught was "Jesus loves everyone" and then you grow up and the Church adds on "-except gay people." It's one of the many things about Christianity that always seems remarkably un-Jesus-like to me.
Saturday, July 25th, 2009 07:59 pm (UTC)
I went to a few classes at a Baptist Sunday school (different church, and a lot less fun than any screwed up summer camp) when I was about 8 or 9 or so. And I'll never forget one lesson where this old woman sat us down and told us a matter of factly that the bible says animals don't have any souls, so they don't go to heaven. Also gay people go to hell.

And I remembered thinking about my 4-H leader and remembering that she was a lesbian, and being really sad for years every time I saw her.

Yeah it always seemed to be a case of picking and choosing the right gospels when it came to Jesus. The theory of what he supposedly taught were pretty good... at least the ones in the church canon. I can't imagine the guy would condemn anyone like that, you know?
Monday, July 27th, 2009 05:08 pm (UTC)
I went to Mt. Cross in the Santa Cruz mountains, and we didn't have any of that. Of course, it was freaking Santa Cruz, so we were much more involved in arts and crafts, kumbayas, and our evening prayers were set to the tune of "Pirates of the Caribbean", but I digress.

I do remember it having a sweet ropes course, though.
Wednesday, September 15th, 2010 05:36 am (UTC)
... And this is why I'm Wiccan... ><

But anyhoo... Small town Iowa is a bit different. I think it's because my town was completely and totally ignorant. We were taught nothing about homosexuality or anything. I never knew such a think existed... Which came as quite a shock my junior year of high school when I fell in love with the new girl... >___<; (my guy friend who was gay (not that I knew at the time) laughed his ass off, called me his 'sweet innocent' and gave me my first yaoi ^^)

Thinking back... nope... Nada... Your camp was just had a creepy tradition.